Denver Metro area real estate insanity

"MUSASHI66" (musashi66)
06/28/2019 at 17:54 • Filed to: None

Right now, m y dad is at a closing on the last two of the 5 rental apartments he owns with my mom. These were all purchased over last 10+ years.

They bought them all for cash, and rented them straight away. After all the expenses, most made around $500 or a bit more profit per month, after crazy steep HOA bills, insurance, taxes and maintenance costs.

Apartment #1 was purchased for $30k. He just sold for $123k with close to no investments , new tub and a new fridge I think. It rented for $950.

Apartment #2 was purchased for $37k, and we invested around $10k in fixing it up. It just sold for $155k to a cash buyer. It rented for $1100 I think?

Apartments #3,#4 and #5 were in the same complex. He bought them for $40k, $60k and $80k, and they just sold for ~ $162k each, and none had any upgrades I can think of other than an appliance or two that died during renting. All of these rented for $1100-ish or so.

So, they made out like banshees on this. They used the proceeds to buy a brand new $400k house next to us - which they will rent for two years so they can avoid a hefty tax bill, they paid off another rental property and they paid off the house that they are living in, and had some cash leftover. Bought for cash with the proceeds from the sale of the last three apartments, with some leftover.

Other properties which they aren’t selling - when we first moved to states, we bought a house in a blue collar neighborhood for $156k. Over the years, we invested a lot, but we also have been renting it for years, and it is worth close to $350k. It currently rents for $2000.

One property that hasn’t increased a lot was purchased for $270, we invested around $30k in a remodel and finishing the basement, and it should sell for $350k if we wanted it to. It is paid off and renting for $2300 per month. It was purchased in 2017, so still time to grow.

Lastly - the house my parents live in now. Bought some 8-10 years ago for $205k, worth around $365k. Once the two years are up and they want to move next to us in Fort Collins area, they can sell this tax free because it was their primary residence.

So, nothing quite like quadruple increase in Seattle area (close enough) , but still pretty insane. Any one buying now...man, I guess the market is still going up and is predicted to go up for foreseeable future, but these prices are insane.

20 years and 45 days ago, we landed into this country as refugees with 6 bags, one guitar, and a total of $8800 in our pockets. I had $800 of those, and my folks had $8000, and we promptly spent $5600 on a 1996 Ford Escort station wagon with low miles and a salvage title. Now my folks - who still struggle a lot with English - are millionaires in equity.

My dad has been working 70 hour weeks for last 20 years also, and he has been bringing home more money than me with a masters degree and “senior” in my job title. Mom never said to no to a babysitting job either, and she makes over $20 per hour for those as well.

‘Murica, fuck yeah.

DISCUSSION (21)

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > MUSASHI66
06/28/2019 at 18:44

One of the biggest regrets (not the right word, because it’s not like I could have changed anything) I have was being right out of college and lacking cash in 2009. So many condos in Denver, Phoenix, and Vegas could have been bought for 1/10 of what they’re going for now. I knew I should have figured out how to do it anyway, but was too intimidated by my (now ex) wife’s timidness.

Second only to knowing I should buy Apple stock in 04 when I was 18, but you know, different cash flow issues.

Congrats to your folks , though. Seems like they were smart and knew how to plan. I like to see when peoples’ risks really pay off.

MUSASHI66 > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
06/28/2019 at 18:49

Thanks! One of my dad’s biggest regrets now is buying these for cash instead of minimum down payment. At the time requirements were so low... we could have had 20-30 apartments instead of 5. But no complaints here - my folks should have an easy retirement and maybe even buy that condo in Mexico/Belize/Panama if they decide on it. And I’ll get my Porsche once inheritance kicks in ;).

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > MUSASHI66
06/28/2019 at 19:01

Years ago I looked at a small, dumpy post-war 2 bed 1 bath dingbat near where I lived in Los Angeles that was selling for just under $200K. It backed into the 405 freeway and had all sorts of traffic noise from LAX, but I decided to wait to find a better place. I shouldn’t have. 12 years later, when I moved to the Midwest, that same house was valued at about $800K. D’oh! It’s gone up a little since then, which is ridiculous.

Some friends of the family bought the house that they’re still in back in 1970. When the husband was about to take early retirement I questioned if the income would be enough to cover their mortgage with room to spare. I was thinking in terms of four-digit monthly payments, but she assured me that, at $210/mo., they would be just fine. That tiny little place is now worth $623K.

My folks are coming up on 39 years in the same house in Laguna. They each had a house that they sold and combined the proceeds to purchase one larger house. I remember that it was $272K way back then, with a loan at around 18%, and that was without any landscaping. Obviously they’ve refinanced several times and paid it off years ago. It’s essentially a fixer-upper since they haven’t done any upgrades since the mid ‘90s. At last check that same tract home is worth about $1.84M. Nuts.

SoCal real estate is simply insane. My apartment in Westchester was $790 when I moved in in 1993, $995 when I moved back into that unit 2000 (I moved to the 1bed across the hall for five years), and $1,356 when I left in 2012, is now renting for $4,795/mo. I could never afford to move back unless I moved in with my folks. They do have three spare bedrooms, but I couldn’t handle the traffic...

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
06/28/2019 at 19:03

Oh god, you have no idea. My ex drained me of all my cash flow in 07-08, which basically put me out of the running for the real estate cleanup that followed right after.
Hindsight isn’t just 20/20 it’s a goddamn telescope, mate

DipodomysDeserti > MUSASHI66
06/28/2019 at 19:08

Awesome immigrant story.

Yeah, the housing market is nuts right now. Thankfully I had enough cash and good credit to buy my house in 2009 right out of college. I bought mine for $150k from the original owner, who’d lived in it for fifty plus years. House across the street sold for $375k a few years ago and my neighbor just put theirs on the m arket for $350k.

However , I’ve seen this story play out before, and I don’t trust our economy enough to give up a home I can afford for cash just yet.

If you don’t mind me asking, which country were you a refugee from?

MUSASHI66 > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
06/28/2019 at 19:23

That is crazy. Location location location

MUSASHI66 > DipodomysDeserti
06/28/2019 at 19:24

We left Bosnia and li ved in Serbia when we were approved to move here.

I am sort of hoping for another crash so I can buy more real estate and be a landlord.

fhrblig > MUSASHI66
06/28/2019 at 20:07

I’m trying very hard to convince my partner to look into selling our condo in Aurora. We owe just under $60k and I think we could get $160k for it right now. We'd need to fix it up a bit, probably spend about $15k but I think it'd be worth it. $85k would be a decent down payment on a real house.

DipodomysDeserti > MUSASHI66
06/28/2019 at 20:11

I went to junior high and high school with a good number of Bosnian refugees. My center for freshmen football, Mersudin, was Bosnian. Very interesting stories.

My great grandfather immigrated to the US just before WWI from southern Italy. We’re Arbëreshë, and the farm my grandfather grew up on is where our ancestors fled to some 500 years ago when they lost Albania to the Ottomans. My uncles over there still speak medieval Albanian.

I always found it fascinating that basically the same shit was still going down in the Balkans some 500 years later.

glemon > MUSASHI66
06/28/2019 at 21:15

The finance thing is easy to say now, but at the time you don't know the future and have a much bigger exposure if you do it that way. But yeah, overall having the balls to buy when everybody else is selling is the way to get ahead.

smobgirl > MUSASHI66
06/28/2019 at 21:26

I’m very curious if the blue-collar rental is in my neighborhood because that price increase sounds awfully exact! 80219 zip code?

And yeah, I wish I’d bought a multi-family building here when I had the chance, like a triplex or fourplex instead of my house. Oh well...at least I have a house.

MUSASHI66 > DipodomysDeserti
06/28/2019 at 23:05

Nobody likes anyone over there.

MUSASHI66 > fhrblig
06/28/2019 at 23:07

Where in Aurora? Two of ours were in aurora , tower and Mississippi and Illif and i225. Market is insane right now. We are putting $100k on our new house in Timnath and the balance is still way more than I’m comfortable with but... happy wife happy life.

MUSASHI66 > smobgirl
06/28/2019 at 23:10

80110 for the house - just a bit south of you on Lowell Blvd north of Belleview , and 80017 and 80237 for the apartments. Most of Colorado has been seeing drastic price increases.

fhrblig > MUSASHI66
06/28/2019 at 23:38

Right near Florida and Abilene.

I tried to convince him to look at Loveland, but he doesn't want to move that far north. It'll more likely be Thornton if we do it.

DipodomysDeserti > MUSASHI66
06/28/2019 at 23:40

I noticed a Skanderbeg crest a few years ago at my local bagel place. Turns out the owners are an Albanian family, refugees from Kosovo. I told them my family history and they invited me over for dinner, and gave me websites where I could learn Albanian for free.

They ask me about my kids whenever I come in. They’re Muslim Albanians flying a Christian crest in their bagel store in the Sonoran Desert and I’m the descendent of Christian mercenaries, but we’re all Albanians living in the Gr eat American Desert.

America, fuck yeah, indeed.

smobgirl > MUSASHI66
06/28/2019 at 23:48

Yeah, I just know that specific ratio is about what we’re at here and half the houses in this neighborhood have sold since 2014. I wouldn’t put us at “gentrifying” yet but it’s wild how quickly the socioeconomic base in this area is changing.

MUSASHI66 > fhrblig
06/29/2019 at 00:00

Cool, I used to bring my pup to Camp Bow Wow over there.

We live around Florida and Havana and are moving all the way to Timnath. Not sure what to tell you - market is hot but going down - one of the places we just sold, comps dropped from 160’s to mid 150’s in a few months. Market is very, very saturated.

MUSASHI66 > smobgirl
06/29/2019 at 00:07

Everything around our house - which is close to Federal - is changing a lot. It used to be mostly white blue collar workers and it has turned to mostly Latino in 20 years or so since we bought it. Our renters are from Guatemala - main breadwinner died recently in a freak construction accident and it sucks, he was an awesome, stand up dude.

I’m not sure if I’ll inherit the property in 20-30 years, or if my folks will take the tax hit and sell sooner or later.

I have a friend that live s close to you, around Florida and Wadsworth. Pricing there has been crazy as well and his property value skyrocketed.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > MUSASHI66
07/11/2019 at 13:11

This is awesome. My brother moved to Denver in 2010(ish). It would have been awesome if he could have purchased a place then, but his cash flow wasn’t there and his mountain of student loans were. He is in a pretty good place to buy now, and honestly, buying at these new prices is probably easier for him in his current situation than if he would have tried when he first moved. He always makes remarks on how expensive it is now. I always laugh because about once a month I’m tempted to move and buy a cheap 350-400k house. Living in a beach city in SoCal really messes with your perspective.

MUSASHI66 > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
07/11/2019 at 14:41

The house above started at $405k when we bought it, but with the extra garage and options and premium lot, plus the landscaping cost, we’ll be right at that magic half a million mark. I still can’t believe we’re doing this (happy wife happy life), and I grow a new gray hair every time I think of the price. Now they start even higher for the base model. I think Colorado splits the uber expensive west coast prices and super cheap mid west prices right down the middle. I know house like this could go for around a mill elsewhere, or for $250k-300k in other places.

To think that 20 years ago, when I moved to states and got a job paying $9.12 per hour, I thought I’d be set for life (after moving here from Serbia where I made $50... per month).